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Mike
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Lei Shan Tao - Thunderpath Taoism
« on: 27 March 2007 »

Here is a really interesting DVD - it is mentioned in the "Foundation Training Forum" which is the school of which Seandenty (the guy in the Mo Pai, HT thread) belongs... The head is David Verdesi who has studied Nei Gung under many masters (inclduing John Chang (Magus of Java) and (trained or knows) Wang Liping)

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The Thunderpath: The Light of Tao
The Lei Shan Tao, or “Thunder Path”, is an ancient Taoist tradition renowned for its mastery of humankind’s highest potential. Dating back more than 5,000 years, the “Thunder Path” is only now being revealed outside of China. This introductory DVD reveals the miraculous healing powers that result from the Lei Shan Tao’s meditation and qigong practices and shows their practical applications in the fields of alternative medicine, longevity research, and spiritual development. David Verdesi, Phd., an anthropologist and the only Western initiate of several lineages of the Lei ShanTao, presents an overview of this extraordinary path of inner alchemy that has historically influenced both Indian Tantrism and Tibetan Buddhism.

here is an article form the Ko Samui express http://www.samuiexpress.net/?q=node/397

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Samui expats experience Taoist healing
By J.B. HOLDEN

DAVID Verdesi, an anthropologist and the only Western initiate of several lineages of the Lei Shan Tao, lived in China for 15 years before coming to live on Samui. Lei Shan Tao, or Thunder Path, is an ancient Chinese lineage within both Taoist and Buddhist tradition known for its extraordinary healing powers and cultivation of humankind’s highest potential.

Verdesi studied the Taoist medical science, a universal discipline of Chinese healing powers and path to tapping into the highest of human potential. 

Recently Verdesi brought in Taoist doctors to share and present examples of their mastery.  Tao doctor Shi Fu Jiang and his students left China for the first time and journeyed to Samui with Dr. Verdesi. The Chinese doctor unveiled some of the mysterious and incredulous Taoist healing powers to a packed audience at the “Thunder Path” seminar held at Central Samui Beach last January 3.

Shi Fu Jiang is a revered master of the Lei Shan Tao, which dates back more than 5,000 years. He demonstrated to a packed audience of skeptics powers that result from the Lei Shan Tao’s meditation and qigong practices. 

Following a video with examples of the ancient practice, the doctor began changing ordinary drinking water to excelsior that enhances and imparts healthy and youthful characteristics. A registrant drank a sample of the “normal” water; then using his energy, Dr. Jiang changed the molecular structure and the subject drank a sample of the altered water. She was shocked and remarked that the water was “sweetened” and became “quite pleasant.” Others from the audience brought their water bottles and put them through the test. Every time the water changed. There were skeptics in the audience and David said, “It is understandable as it is difficult for western people to accept eastern medical practices; in the east people are brought up with a strong spiritual belief and accept the extraordinary.”   

One of the attendees (a scientist and geneticist) sent back his findings on a water sample. He had flown in from Bangkok to attend the seminar and took a sample of the altered water for testing.  He e-mailed last January 17 from Vienna the following: “In comparison to untreated water, the one energized by the master contains a major peak of a small compound (379 Dalton) and two minor peaks of equally small molecular weights (365 and 380 Dalton). The masses were determined by mass spectrometry, but the molecules could not be identified by comparison with data stored in that machine, where millions and millions of molecules structure are kept! All existing sugars were compared and it is NOT any of them—neither a compound, so we can conclude it is not a sugar molecule. Glucose has 180 Dalton, saccharose has 342 Dalton so forth and so on...We will try to go to Munich where one of the biggest and most accurate of these mass spectrometers is located. Another possibility would be to try to get into a facility with nuclear magnetic resonance and try to convince somebody to work on the sample. In any case this is quite interesting, using qi to create a certain sweet-tasting molecule.”

A session was later held for those seeking diagnoses of body ailments. The session was staged so that one sat opposite the doctor as he gathered energy and seemed to look into the person’s body. This is the period when he “sees inside the body” to find blockages and problems. Both stand and the subject extends his/her arms toward the doctor as he again gathers energy (sometimes with the help of his students). He puts forth one hand to touch a wrist and transfer the energy. Subjects reported that the doctor was extremely knowledgeable, and for some, miracles took place.

Westerners witnessed first-hand the astonishing powers that normally are associated only with legend and myth. 

Verdesi explained that the universal appeal of Taoism is that it is not a religion but a spiritual quest for enlightenment, embodying all religions.   

and a photo of Shi Fu Jiang and David Verdesi:



 smiley

Mike
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Mike
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Re: Lei Shan Tao - Thunderpath Taoism
« Reply #1 on: 27 March 2007 »

And for those wishing to investigate esoteric Taoist/Neigung training further their forum is http://foundation73.proboards55.com

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Sifu Stier
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Re: Lei Shan Tao - Thunderpath Taoism
« Reply #2 on: 27 March 2007 »

"BUT WAIT! If you order now, we will include the Taoist Secret of Secrets at no additional charge! This is normally a $900 value...ABSOLUTELY FREE! But you must act now!"  LOL  tongue

C'mon, guys, gimme a break here!  I seriously doubt that 'Lei Shan Tao' is anywhere close to 5,000 years old. Uh?  How long has this guy been posting on the web to promote this art? confused  Probably not much older than that! embarassed

Sounds like a bogus internet money machine to me, but what do I know?  I'm just a dumb 'good ole boy' from frickin' Texas. LMAO  grin

And exactly what distinguishes this man in the mind's of the Ascended Masters, that he should be taught such rare esoteric arts so he can sell these 'secrets' online for his own financial gain? rolleyes  I would be terribly surprised to learn that in fact there actually are any secrets to be accessed through him.  You know, if it sounds too good to be true...it probably isn't. wink

Just my humble opinion!  Happy

Doc
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Mike
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Re: Lei Shan Tao - Thunderpath Taoism
« Reply #3 on: 27 March 2007 »

Hi Humble Guy   grin

Well this is the Taoism section so always hard to draw the line between fiction and faction...

As for 5,000 yrs I am sure I have read that ZZ is 10,000 yrs old (or some such stuff) - what with 64,000 dharma doors and the like I am sure such a student of chinese culture got used to dividing everything by a hundred a long time ago... in fact probably about 3,000yrs ago wink

If you want some Michael Winn assasination along the lines you quote then try http://forum.healingdao.com/general/message/10475/ eg:

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The David Shen story has gotten much better than his channeled tales about the iimmortal dajen. A secret hierarchy of masters in China, secret sacred dharma wheels that the Dalai Lama is begging to get back. But only the True Seeker need signup for this special $7500. opportunity - only for someone who knows in advance that they are signing up for Life Time committment with David Shen and his huge entourage of masters.

In turn Sean answers at http://forum.healingdao.com/general/message/10478/ (for those who like a good bar room rumble!).

However there is no doubt that David Vernesi seems to know quite a lot of stuf... eg there is a (seemingly) very good qigong article (as in better than 95% of qigong articles I have read on the net) at http://foundation73.proboards55.com/index.cgi?board=oldstuff&action=display&thread=1165711531 (you will have to register on their forum to read it... they also ask specifically for folks not to copy stuff out of their forum)... so maybe not entirely a dry land in the everglades scheme...

Actually talking of larger than life nei-gung deeds... I was rather hoping you would comment on the John Chang Magus video Doc...

Mike
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Mike
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Re: Lei Shan Tao - Thunderpath Taoism Course
« Reply #4 on: 27 March 2007 »

They are organising a course in Denmark this summer.... the fee turns out (after all) to be $1,000 for a week (which is cheap compared to some qigong schools).

Having read the HT fora articles... it sounds like to whatever facts they have there is a lot of sour grapes... they are always being sued for plagiarism (latest by Pranic Healing folks)... and in terms of what my ears from the jungle drums hear they hear more health problems than major progress...
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Sifu Stier
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Re: Lei Shan Tao - Thunderpath Taoism
« Reply #5 on: 28 March 2007 »

:

"Well this is the Taoism section so always hard to draw the line between fiction and faction....." tongue
"A secret hierarchy of masters in China, secret sacred dharma wheels that the Dalai Lama is begging to get back...."  rolleyes

"Actually talking of larger than life nei-gung deeds... I was rather hoping you would comment on the John Chang Magus video Doc..."

Well, Mike, just as it is said "all that glitters is not gold", it could also be said "all that appears mystical is not magic"!  This is not to say that extraordinary spiritual powers, which may very well appear magical to the uninitiated observer, don't exist.  Nonetheless, although ANYTHING is possible through the Grace and Power of God's Will , many things remain highly improbable for mere mortals! wink

Doc
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Sifu Stier
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Re: Lei Shan Tao - Thunderpath Taoism
« Reply #6 on: 28 March 2007 »

The Thunder God ( Lei Gong )

It is believed that a bolt of lightning erupting in the midst of the dark universe disrupts the primordial chaos. Hence at the beginning of time, chaos is altered into order by lightning. Thunder and lightning are worshipped by the primitive because it is one of the greatest forces in the Universe that is feared by man.

The Divine Heaven sect came into being at the end of the Northern Song dynasty (AD 960-1127). Wang Wenqin, its founder, was a Daoist from Nanfong, Jianxi.

The Divine Heaven sect attributed its Talismans and Registers to the Perfect King of Jade Clarity of the Divine Heaven, also known as the Great South Pole Emperor of Longevity, who was said to be the head of the celestial Thunder Agency. Because the Divine Heaven sect's Thunder Skills were encouraged by emperor Huizong's policies in favor of Daoism, they became incredibly popular in a short time during the Song dynasty. Emperor Huizong ordered that Longevity Temples of Jade Clarity of the Divine Heaven should be constructed in all regions to worship the Great Emperor of Divine Heaven. After that, the Divine Heaven sect spread continuously and divided into various branches.

The Divine Heaven sect was characterized by a combination of Inner Alchemy and Talismans and Registers. Attributing its tradition of Inner Alchemy to Zhang Boduan's Southern Lineage of the Golden Elixir, it emphasized the Original Spirit and Inner Nature as prerequisites for Inner Refinement. It considered Inner Refinement to be the root, and Talismans and Registers the fruit, of spiritual practise. Starting with the theory of man's body as microcosm and the universe as macrocosm, the Daoists of the Divine Heaven sect equated the Thunder Spirits and deities controlled by Thunder Magic with the body's Essential Matter, Vital Breath, and Spirit, as well as with the Vital Breaths of the Five Viscera.

Author: Li Gang
Translator: Gou Bo
Copy Editor: David Palmer

As you can see, the earliest origin of these ideas and practices in Taoism only dates back to the late 10th Century, not 5,000 years ago. rolleyes

Doc 

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Mike
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Re: Lei Shan Tao - Thunderpath Taoism
« Reply #7 on: 28 March 2007 »

Hi Doc

Yeh agree entirely with the first post and thanks for the info on the second...

..from reading their material this 7,500 refers to the Zhan Zhuang part of their training (not the Taoist alchemy) - so its the same 'ancient claim' that one sees in many contexts.

Anyway as always the proof of the pudding is in the eating and many qigong schools make amazing claims about the benefits of their methodology (and of course the real essence of this stripped of surround is "methods")... as time goes by and punters try we can all reach a more balanced assesment of the pros and cons of different schools when they walk the walk rather than talk the talk  wink

Or to put it another way we all know that the best Taoist methods are far from public domain yet... equally there are so many no one school can have more than a fraction... so always interesting to see what emerges... of course in the modern world its dressed up in hype and $$$ but thats merely par for the course  sad

Mike
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Mike
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Re: Lei Shan Tao - Thunderpath Taoism
« Reply #8 on: 28 March 2007 »

More on this video (from a Sean Denty post at http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=2933&view=findpost&p=27641

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I just wanted to give an update on the video; I just received an advanced copy. It's very nicely done by one of David's students living in Thailand. The Video includes some Q&A from David as well as several demos of treatments, and Qi abilities common to the Lei Shan Dao.

The demos are very good and include the water changing (discussed on another thread, pyrokenisis done by David's brother student, he lights a pile of straw on fire, very cool), the so called Yin Yang Gong and the "eye of heaven," the ability to see into the Human body to make a diagnosis. All very nicely done.

There are some other interesting bits of news that I will leave for those interested to discover.

The Yin Yang Gong is I believe the essence of how the Mo Pai create so much energy... I have never come across pyrokinesis (actually not much point to it other than as a trick)... and have heard much about medical diagnosis/siddhis of seeing.

So as often the truth most likely lies in the middle... these folks are most likely neither complete charlatans nor are they promisers of immortality or (necessarily) anything that one cant get elsewhere...

The key word in Sean's post above is "common" (to the Lei Shan Dao)... as per my 'lets see how the cake cooks' post... it really is a question of how many of their new intake progress to this level...

But its certainly no easy ride - they say for the first few years you have to do 3hrs Qigong a day Uh?

Mike
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Michael Udel
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Re: Lei Shan Tao - Thunderpath Taoism
« Reply #9 on: 28 March 2007 »

Seandenty comes off like he's seen quite a bit and doesn't mind bashing one school and hyping another that he really knows nothing about first hand. His report of a healing from a potential teacher is interesting:

"That afternoon Sherfu had me stand on his porch as he lanced the veins in the back of both my knees with a prong the size of a knitting needle what seemed like at least a half inch into the flesh. After he got the blood flowing he used his qi to push the affected blood out of my body. What came out of me was about a half pint of what looked like roof tar. It was literally black and thick like a paste. Sherfu said that if I hadn’t come to him, I would have been quite possibly hit with a stroke within the year. After the treatment I actually felt really good. I was given several large herbal “pills” to clear anything that was left in my system. According to Sherfu, because of the properties of the type of medicine that I was given, I will never have to worry about this problem again and will be able to reach my optimal health. I guess these pills have a lot of qi and are a specialty of this lineage."

The part that grabs me is when he says "...I guess these pills have a lot of qi..."

After all Sean's experiences with one school that he now says is pretty bad, The Healing Tao, and another school that left him high and dry when his teacher (Kostas Danaos) was cut off, he's still just guessing about what kind of pills he's taking, both literally and figuratively. He's obviously been assimilated by the GM. Not sure if that's Grand Master or Great Marketeer.
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